The nature of discource and argument Part3

On Ignorance. 

In the previous post of this series. I mentioned the appeal to ignorance.   I would like to expand on the following text from it,

-----Ignorance  (which is a lack of knowledge or information on a subject) and it's admission are important for truth seekers.  This appeal, dismisses ignorance as a credible state or uses it as a wedge.  The basic form is as follows;  "You can't prove bigfoot doesn't exist therefore bigfoot exists."   This is often an attempt to flip the burden of proof onto someone requesting evidence.-----

My reply to the appeal to ignorance goes something like this: Just because I admit that I don't know something does not mean that I accept that you do know, or that the subject is unknowable.  These are three distinct states of being the first two being completely independent of each other, and both being dependent on the last.  But I really want to talk about ignorance in a more general sense.

Ethics of blogging and reporting the news.

A conversation from October about blogging vs journalism.




My interest in this discussion began with a facebook post by a friend and journalist. (see it and the resulting discussion below, last names have been changed and facebookery removed to protect peoples identity, which should be the default)

Jordan Said:

I don't believe in citizen journalism because journalism -- like any
profession worthy of the name -- has standards and ethics, and if you
don't sign on to those, I can no more trust you than I can a doctor who
refused the Hippocratic oath or a lawyer who failed the bar exam.

Citizen journalists? Spreading like a cold - Leonard Pitts Jr. - MiamiHerald.com

I do not believe in ``citizen journalism.'' Yes, I know that's heresy. Yes, I know the old model has changed: the monologue is now a dialogue. Yes, I know ordinary people with cellphone cameras now ``report'' newsworthy events and bloggers are indispensable to the national dialogue.

October 7 at 12:42am 

• 7 people like this.
• • Keri Said: 
     I absolutely agree with you, Jordan.
    

    October 7 at 1:26am · 
  • Mike Said:  
    A "cold" is putting it mildly.
    

    October 7 at 1:48am · 
  • Randy Said:
    

    I think Mr. Pitts has exagerated his claim. Is a volunteer firefighter no less a firefighter because he is not paid? Would we call this person a "citizen firefighter." Is an EMT not less an EMT because he or she is not paid? Do we call this person a "citizen EMT."
    
    The fact of the matter is, many cities and towns right here in our area, and across the nation, are not covered in the manner that best serves that particular community.
    
    Just like in many other aspects of the community, it is ultimately up to the "citizens" of that community to step up to the plate and fill whatever that void happens to be.
    
    And while that community might suffer from that lack of a "professional" journalist, I believe that a "citizen" journalist is better then darkness.

    October 7 at 9:53am ·
  • Cindy Said:
    ‎@Randy, I believe volunteer firefighters and EMTs do receive extensive training and are committed to their work, unlike a "citizen journalist."
    

    October 7 at 11:34am ·
  • Randy Said:
     I would not lump all "citizen journalists" together.
    

    October 7 at 11:35am ·
  • Mike Said:
    One of the things about "citizen journalism" is that you never know what hidden agendas they may have
    

    October 7 at 11:37am
  • Randy Said:
    

    Hah! As opposed to "professional" journalists?
    

    October 7 at 11:39am ·
  • Randy Said:
    The ny post has no agenda whatsoever!! Lol
    

    October 7 at 11:40am · 
  • Mike Said:
    Yes, as opposed to professional journalists. Of course, the problem is that some people now think of people like Limbaugh and Olbermann as journalists. They're not.
    

    October 7 at 11:40am · 
  • 
    

    Philip Aitken
    

    I think the author's point is clouded by disparaging those of us who are not professionals but wish to share our thoughts with others. It is however a good one. One of accountability. If Jayson Blair had been a blogger it would have been up to the community in general to warn others off of him. Where the Times had the responsibility to discipline him, because he was a professional journalist. Imagining that pay leads to professionalism, or doing something in your free time means not upholding standards of intellectual integrity is both elitist and false. So I guess I agree with the specifics of the article but disagree with the tone and broader implications.

    October 7 at 12:22pm ·
  • Randy Said:
    Nicely said
    

    October 7 at 12:39pm · 
  • Mike Said:
    I think sharing thoughts is great. However, the concept of going to blogs for "news reports" is a bad one.
    

    October 7 at 1:35pm · 
  • 
    

    Philip Aitken The idea that a given writer will be more objective about a subject because they are paid to write about it, seems more than a little naive. The actual problem with blogs and "citizen reporters" is that there are no editorial oversights to separate out the dross. That being said, journalism as a commercial venture necessarily plays to the idea of being consumed rather than a search for objectivity.
    

    October 7 at 1:43pm · 
  • Jordan Said:  
    I think Phil's right. I have no beef with a proliferation of voices, but it worries me that most of them come with no editorial oversight. If I screw something up, I'm accountable to my bosses. Or, if I do something wildly unethical, I'll probably get canned or banished to some corner of newsroom purgatory. If some blogger does it, people get conned.
    

    October 7 at 8:54pm · 
  • Mike Said: bingo
    

    October 7 at 8:55pm ·
  • James Said:
    I avoid the majority of reader reports and blogs because, as Philip pointed out, the quality control is greatly lacking. Even the articles that get picked up by legitimate news sources are often: wildly inaccurate, barely intelligible, or terribly slanted. I think this type of 'reporting' has its entertainment value, but that doesn't make it journalism.
    

     October 7 at 11:14pm ·
  • Randy Said:
    What bout blogs hosted by major news outlets?
    

    October 7 at 11:33pm · 

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    I was at the time just really starting to read science journalists and to follow them on twitter and through my blog reader, in that realm there seems to be much discussion of this idea.  And scientists taking a more active role as direct to public reporters of their work.  The idea of Press release journalism and false balance.  etc.
    
    
    
    Also these from later.
    http://www.observer.com/2011/tech/end-blogging
    
    http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/death-of-blogging.html
    
    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/02/14/journalism
    
    http://www.editorsweblog.org/newsrooms_and_journalism/2011/02/blogging_is_dead_or_is_it_only_adapting.php
    
    
    http://pressthink.org/2011/03/monsters-of-the-newsroom-id-why-bloggers-vs-journalists-is-still-with-us/
    
    
    http://snarkmarket.com/2011/6727
    
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/06/28/am-i-a-science-journalist/
    
    
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=technogenic-disasters-a-deadly-new-2011-07-06

The nature of discourse and argument Part 2

           The point of today's post is common mistakes made in arguments.  Again the definition of argument I am using is the formal one, of putting forth reasons, not the common one of having a disagreement.  The two main types of mistakes made are having bad starting information, or premises, and making a bad inference or connection between two or more points of information, called fallacies. The end claims made in fallacious arguments are not always false, we are currently only going over evaluation of claims as given, and not setting up and understanding requirements for truth value when claims are either not given or lacking in some way.   With that in mind let's talk about a few common fallacies in a group called Appeals.     

Is marriage a civil right?

Marriage is not a civil right.  Or at least that is what Ann Coulter would have you believe.   She expressed her opinion at this year's HomoCon.   Which is in this case a contraction of homosexual with both convention and conservative.   Conservative enough to value the lifestyle of the ancient Greeks.

Images of the Prophet(s)

The Abrahamic faiths have something against imagery as used in worship. Thou Shalt not make Graven Images was put right into the decalogue about 4 places before murder. SO we should know that this is serious business. By the way, graven means carved. As in statues which were often used as devotional objects, but it is typically taken to mean any image used for religious purposes. Anyway this seems to be extended to all representations. So, Charlton Heston dressed as Moses in a movie? Bad idea.

Chuck, you are holding the dang thing in your hand, at least read it!

I scream for ice cream. (That's what she said)

Antonio Federici Gelatto has released some controversial ads. The london based italian style ice cream makers have generated some briliant PR, by releasing an advertisement campaign which is just offensive enough to get into the news and just interesting enough to get people to want to see it. This is how I first heard of it. And as you can see, I was interested enough to share it with you. memetic infection at it's finest. The other interesting this about the free advertising that I and others are providing is, that even if you are offended you are more aware of the brand. The offense will fade, brand awareness will not.

Below are the images that CNN decided not to reprint, but instead describe. I would question this practice of drawing your attention to something and then denying that thing as a cock tease and bad reporting. But I have noticed that when it comes to religiously offensive imagery that is the standard for news. Remember the whole flurry of stories about cartoonists being attacked for drawing cartoons? No? Well maybe you remember it as being about drawings of the Prophet Mohammad, but never being shown those drawings. In another post I might do that, but for now here are some ads for ice cream.

Primary Elections

Today was the first time I ever voted in a primary election. It was, less exciting than I hoped for. But, if you are not a registered member of either of the major parties I recommend that you become so. You do not have to fully agree with the political positions, you may even disagree with the false dichotomy presented. However, in voting in primaries you get to influence the final choices come November. You get to help select what candidate a party will ultimately field. This could fuel change that you want or prevent change that you don't. Register today, get to vote twice next time. Apologies to non citizens, for wasting your time with this.